Liver disease on the up (warning: not a nice read)
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Join Date: Sep 2023
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Hodd just in response to your recent post. I really do get angry the side affects of drinking aren't out there. If people were aware of the full dangers they'd understand more about why you've stopped instead of instantly thinking you must have a problem. My friend has a problem and because she isn't comfortable that I've stopped she down plays everything the attitude of everyone drinks. If it was portrayed similar to smoking it would take some of that away like no one would encourage you to smoke.
The GP bit I never go if I can help it. Sometimes people need to take responsibility for their own health. My neighbours have both put on a lot of weight over the last few years. Was talking to him recently he was a really attractive guy but now looks bloated and really pale. He's just been diagnosed with BP high cholesterol start of diabetes and his attitude was well its not so bad I commented it's a wake up call and his response was I'll get medication. I worked as a dental nurse for many years and part of my job was to talk to parents who's children repeatedly had to have teeth removed. Highly stressful for young children hence educating the parents. I have to say nothing changed same children same extractions so I suspect some GPs think what's the point. We all know how to look after ourselves but lots don't want to put the effort into eating healthy and exercise. It's like the common excuse can't afford healthy food. No but can afford takeaway every week.
The GP bit I never go if I can help it. Sometimes people need to take responsibility for their own health. My neighbours have both put on a lot of weight over the last few years. Was talking to him recently he was a really attractive guy but now looks bloated and really pale. He's just been diagnosed with BP high cholesterol start of diabetes and his attitude was well its not so bad I commented it's a wake up call and his response was I'll get medication. I worked as a dental nurse for many years and part of my job was to talk to parents who's children repeatedly had to have teeth removed. Highly stressful for young children hence educating the parents. I have to say nothing changed same children same extractions so I suspect some GPs think what's the point. We all know how to look after ourselves but lots don't want to put the effort into eating healthy and exercise. It's like the common excuse can't afford healthy food. No but can afford takeaway every week.
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Join Date: May 2019
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^ Hi GymB, 100% 👍
The side effect of alcohol I previously didn’t know about, and which is the most dangerous, is how addictive it is. It seems obvious now, but anyone who feels they “need” a drink already has a problem, i.e. they’re dependent. I remember one evening in 2002 deciding to have a night off drinking and sitting there bored. I already had a problem at that stage. Dependency is hard to quantify, and people (including the old me) don’t recognise it.
I feel for GPs. It’s a thankless task seeing hundreds of patients a week. The amount of paperwork and stress must be horrendous. Seeing a patient with lifestyle-related issues must be frustrating, especially if they’re not going to change. A struggling drinker really must see their GP, but they have to go there with the intention of quitting. Otherwise, what’s the GP expected to do? I struck lucky as I went to my GP with clear/honest consumption figures and acknowledged I was dependent. If I’d been vague about my intake and intentions, there wouldn’t be much my GP could’ve done.
Your neighbour’s a sad tale. They seem unaware that meds have side effects. Also, when we get properly old, some medication may be inevitable, and such medication will interact (possibly badly) with all the other meds. My dad had a heart bypass and took 9 different tablets twice a day! OK, I guess most of this were necessary, but the awful side effects and dosage adjustments demonstrated that no one really knows the side effects of taking numerous meds. Less has to be better, and “lifestyle meds” such as BP tablets have to be a last resort.
The side effect of alcohol I previously didn’t know about, and which is the most dangerous, is how addictive it is. It seems obvious now, but anyone who feels they “need” a drink already has a problem, i.e. they’re dependent. I remember one evening in 2002 deciding to have a night off drinking and sitting there bored. I already had a problem at that stage. Dependency is hard to quantify, and people (including the old me) don’t recognise it.
I feel for GPs. It’s a thankless task seeing hundreds of patients a week. The amount of paperwork and stress must be horrendous. Seeing a patient with lifestyle-related issues must be frustrating, especially if they’re not going to change. A struggling drinker really must see their GP, but they have to go there with the intention of quitting. Otherwise, what’s the GP expected to do? I struck lucky as I went to my GP with clear/honest consumption figures and acknowledged I was dependent. If I’d been vague about my intake and intentions, there wouldn’t be much my GP could’ve done.
Your neighbour’s a sad tale. They seem unaware that meds have side effects. Also, when we get properly old, some medication may be inevitable, and such medication will interact (possibly badly) with all the other meds. My dad had a heart bypass and took 9 different tablets twice a day! OK, I guess most of this were necessary, but the awful side effects and dosage adjustments demonstrated that no one really knows the side effects of taking numerous meds. Less has to be better, and “lifestyle meds” such as BP tablets have to be a last resort.
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We all know how to look after ourselves but lots don't want to put the effort into eating healthy and exercise. It's like the common excuse can't afford healthy food. No but can afford takeaway every week
As for the exercise thing, it’s been a life changer for me. It’s given me a new social life with my sports club. Also, there’s a little lunchtime running club in my new job, and I had the confidence to go along. Great to chat with people and run. They’re a fast bunch too 🤣 so I get a nice workout. Many people see exercise as effort and pain, but the benefits are far reaching.
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Hodd i often wonder is it now that we are sober that these number's and behaviour which is basically advertised and promoted to the public are astounding to us.
The volume i put away (a crazy amount of pints) on a day out with the lads when i was a young man probably wouldn't have been believed by someone working in the health sector.
Only yesterday a doctor was on the radio telling the host that 4 deaths a day are linked to alcohol in Ireland, he compared this to a campaign over here at the moment regarding road deaths, everyone of them being awful and tragic, he spoke of whats being done to reduce it and stopping them altogether by the road safety authorities with the support of government. Never do we hear or very little if anything is done on alcohol consumption and the health effects from it on radio or tv.
More health information is given to us on minerals and processed foods.
I could go on but i think you get what im saying.
The volume i put away (a crazy amount of pints) on a day out with the lads when i was a young man probably wouldn't have been believed by someone working in the health sector.
Only yesterday a doctor was on the radio telling the host that 4 deaths a day are linked to alcohol in Ireland, he compared this to a campaign over here at the moment regarding road deaths, everyone of them being awful and tragic, he spoke of whats being done to reduce it and stopping them altogether by the road safety authorities with the support of government. Never do we hear or very little if anything is done on alcohol consumption and the health effects from it on radio or tv.
More health information is given to us on minerals and processed foods.
I could go on but i think you get what im saying.
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Originally Posted by Dee74 
Strongly disagree that pot is somehow ‘better’ than alcohol.
I smoked as much pot as I drank alcohol.
Never underestimate the appetite of an addict to misuse something.
D
ps Apologies for the sidebar.
I smoked as much pot as I drank alcohol.
Never underestimate the appetite of an addict to misuse something.
D
ps Apologies for the sidebar.
We can totally agree to disagree, but in any case. I wasn't condoning it.
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^^ I just found an online alcohol UK units calculator, AL. The trouble is that only the UK uses this system, and even we don’t understand it.
But on average, I’d drink 4x500ml cans of 5% beer a night. That’s probably low compared to many, but it’s 80 UK units a week. The UK “safe” limit was 21 units and now 14. I remember texting in to a local radio show to say I used to drink 70 units a week. The presenter sounded incredulous as he read out my text. Yes, it was doing me a lot of harm, but so many people drink loads more.
And that last point was my justification. If others drank more, I must be OK.
But on average, I’d drink 4x500ml cans of 5% beer a night. That’s probably low compared to many, but it’s 80 UK units a week. The UK “safe” limit was 21 units and now 14. I remember texting in to a local radio show to say I used to drink 70 units a week. The presenter sounded incredulous as he read out my text. Yes, it was doing me a lot of harm, but so many people drink loads more.
And that last point was my justification. If others drank more, I must be OK.
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^ It just happens over time, Joe. I remember up to age 20 if I drank more than 3 beers, I’d be sick! How crazy then that I obviously “trained myself” to go past that limit.
In 2019 (six months sober), I had the misfortune to go on a business trip with six colleagues. In the evening, we went to a pub (obviously, what else do middle aged Brits do?) and then quite a good restaurant. I wasn’t drinking but most others easily had 10 large beers. They’d built up that tolerance over years. The exception was one guy who just couldn’t handle more than 3 beers, so stopped. I admired him for not being a seasoned drinker.
As for me, I got sick of the boring idiots, and ironically the trip was in my old university town where I hadn’t been for decades, and went to a student bar on the uni campus for an AF beer (I was into AF back then). Much nicer view there, although the students must’ve thought I was some visiting professor
🤪
In 2019 (six months sober), I had the misfortune to go on a business trip with six colleagues. In the evening, we went to a pub (obviously, what else do middle aged Brits do?) and then quite a good restaurant. I wasn’t drinking but most others easily had 10 large beers. They’d built up that tolerance over years. The exception was one guy who just couldn’t handle more than 3 beers, so stopped. I admired him for not being a seasoned drinker.
As for me, I got sick of the boring idiots, and ironically the trip was in my old university town where I hadn’t been for decades, and went to a student bar on the uni campus for an AF beer (I was into AF back then). Much nicer view there, although the students must’ve thought I was some visiting professor
🤪
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I met up with an old friend for dinner last night who works part time as a counsellor. He confided that he'd been quite upset by one of his recent clients. This client, a military veteran, had drink problems in his past since leaving the forces but with a good deal of work had achieved many years of abstinence and recovery. The man in question relapsed however, his liver failed and he was dead within a few months. My friend worked to counsel him through his dying weeks and days when nothing could be done.
I could not have had a more stark reminder of the dangers of alcohol. There but for the grace of God go I.
Forwards.
I could not have had a more stark reminder of the dangers of alcohol. There but for the grace of God go I.
Forwards.
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Join Date: Jun 2019
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I've heard many stories similar to that Forwards. People closer to my age at 40, some even younger, and then of course older people. The sudden shock of going back to the amount of alcohol damages the body beyond repair.
Bodies naturally wear out, no reason to speed up the process.
Bodies naturally wear out, no reason to speed up the process.
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Posts: 1,682
Originally Posted by Dee74
It crosses my mind every day how lucky I am to have escaped with my life and reasonable health and well being.
D
D
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I suspect many of us don't really delve into the physical affects of alcohol abuse whilst we're alcoholics, probably for me vaguely aware but wouldn't stop me. Out of sight out of mind attitude. Stuff I've learnt since stopping and being more interested in how alcohol affects the body has been truly shocking. We all know the obvious liver problems associated with alcohol abuse but I had no idea just how damaging alcohol really is. We've all had a great escape.
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Gym,
I used to go to the emergency room in withdrawal after a binge. Every damn time
Not entirely because of the quantity, but probably because of the sensitivity of my nervous system. Or because I'm a wuss But in my gut, I remember, I could feel my nerves going crazy like internal pins and needles. The crippling sense of impending doom and extreme nausea is also something I will never forget.
I used to go to the emergency room in withdrawal after a binge. Every damn time
Not entirely because of the quantity, but probably because of the sensitivity of my nervous system. Or because I'm a wuss
But in my gut, I remember, I could feel my nerves going crazy like internal pins and needles. The crippling sense of impending doom and extreme nausea is also something I will never forget.
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Originally Posted by joe801
I've heard many stories similar to that Forwards. People closer to my age at 40, some even younger, and then of course older people. The sudden shock of going back to the amount of alcohol damages the body beyond repair.
Bodies naturally wear out, no reason to speed up the process.
Bodies naturally wear out, no reason to speed up the process.
* I hope it’s not a negative outlook. I think complacency is risky in sobriety. Accepting the risk of relapse keeps us wary 🙂
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That was the old me fully agee about the affect on the nervous system. As my alcoholism advanced I would have a drink for Dutch courage to help me cope with certain situations not realising it was the alcohol that was creating the nerves in the first place. It's absolutely bonkers looking back on it, alcohol was making my world smaller and smaller and I still thought it was giving me help my anxiety, nerves whatever were caused by something else.
Yes alcohol and age really don't go. I guess I got away with it for a long time. Because a lot of the time I wasn't drinking my normal healthy lifestyle soon bounced me back after a binge. But on my last couple of binge sessions I knew my body was really struggling my hangovers felt like hell. I was convinced I was dying and my last one i remember looking at the state of myself in the mirror and thinking what an f ing mess. Im never going to forget that as I don't intend going back there. We're all so much better without it.
Yes alcohol and age really don't go. I guess I got away with it for a long time. Because a lot of the time I wasn't drinking my normal healthy lifestyle soon bounced me back after a binge. But on my last couple of binge sessions I knew my body was really struggling my hangovers felt like hell. I was convinced I was dying and my last one i remember looking at the state of myself in the mirror and thinking what an f ing mess. Im never going to forget that as I don't intend going back there. We're all so much better without it.
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Originally Posted by Hodd
And let’s face it. If I (or many of us) relapsed - and I think it’s best to appreciate it’s a possibility albeit an unpleasant one* - we wouldn’t have just the one. I reckon I’d have a whole bucket full of wine! That’s more than I drank before, but that’s what relapsers do. My body wouldn’t cope well with that shock.
* I hope it’s not a negative outlook. I think complacency is risky in sobriety. Accepting the risk of relapse keeps us wary 🙂
* I hope it’s not a negative outlook. I think complacency is risky in sobriety. Accepting the risk of relapse keeps us wary 🙂
I think any relapse for me would be committing suicide by drink. Now for me, there is no room for relapse. I have no desire to be removed from the game just yet, especially me being the cause of the removal.
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