Boleo

I have heard it said many times -

"When I sponsor I find I am somehow wiser".

Music

My first sponsor told me once, when I was upset about a pigeon going back out that "you're not God, and you don't have the right to stand in the way of someone hitting their bottom." God gave me experience strength and hope to share. That's all I can do. Sometimes I just have to move out of the way and let the person go. I don't believe anyone dies in vain. When an alcoholic dies, all I can think is "there but for the grace of God go I."

McGowdog

But it doesn't make a very good eulogy, right? I thought God was as much in the death business as He was in the life business. But that's just me.

:rotfxko

I went to a noon meeting and the chair person said something good. I'm gonna go ahead and steal it and use it here because it's true for me too.

"Jail was like a spiritual retreat for us alkies." That's true for me because some of my loved ones got a break from me and I sort of got a break from them. A chance to chill out and see how I really stand in the world.

In my group, the 12 steps are kind of a spiral. There's no arrival point. I heard a guy with some time say the spiritual path gets harder and harder, not easier and easier. But he says if you continue on it, life gets easier and more satisfying... but there's no arrival point. He says we tend to want assurance and instead, we get thrust into the unknown.

Music, I agree that we cannot carry the drunk or do anything for them. We can merely show. If we do more than steer them to God, we've done too much. But we've got a guy in our group who has been upset with one of our newcomers (not really ours, but he has come to our meeting, worked with G and come to lunch with us...) Well his life straightened up so fast that he thought he didn't need to finish his 4th Step. He's drinking now. But the night before he went and drank, our guy G called him and said, "We need to talk before you go out and drink."

It may have already been too late at that point, but I got the same exact speech in about 2003. Same result for me . So the guy drank, he's in his mid 20s and his stomach bleeds. It's sad, but he still calls G. Now that's crazy. What does G tell him? "Better you than me." Harsh. See I don't think I can say that, because I was once a chronic slipper myself. That to me would be bad Karma. But... I ask G why he gives the "Let's talk before you go drink" speech... because it didn't stop me from drinking. G says "I do that for me, not you or him. I need to know I did my part and at least tried, even if it don't work."

Hmmm...

FightingIrish

So what do you say to the guy who's about to drink?

navysteve

Depends on the guy:

The easy and often approved of hard-assed answer is to tell them to go ahead. That often times is exactly the right thing to say.

But there is no one size fits all answer. I had a guy come to me and say "if this is all there is then I might as well drink!"

That opened the door for me to ask what step he was on...

I had a guy tell me he thought he wasn't done and that he really wanted to drink.

I told him if I could help him in any way to get and stay sober I would. I asked him not to throw my number out. He called a few times and let me take him to a meeting, but he eventually stopped.

I had a friend who told me one day she didn't think she was an alcoholic. She had gotten into some trouble in her twenties and came to AA and was 5 years sober and felt like it wasn't for her but felt like she was betraying the people who helped her out in the beginning.

I told her to go drink if she didn't believe she was an alcoholic ( I was ostracized for that statement).

She has finished college since leaving AA, owns her own home, goes to work at a job she loves and enjoys time with all the friends she lost contact with because people in the fellowship said they were toxic to her recovery.

Not everyone who questions whether or not they belong in AA belong in AA. I know it is a cute thing to say in meetings and will get a head nod of approval from the upper echelon but it is not healthy.

laurie6781

"Your choice."

Some are just not ready yet and need more practice to be convinced.

Love and hugs,

Wolfchild

Since i do not place myself in the company of those who are drinking....
*probably wouldn't say anything, i would just walk away from them.

barb dwyer

If they're 'challenging' me
(they do that sometimes)
I shrug and remind them THEIR drinking is none of my business.

If they're trying to impose on my space and/or living condition
(meaning - uninvited type imposing)
I remind them of exactly that.
And remind them of where the actual AA meetings are held.

If they're binging and can't stop -
I encourage them to go to sleep and contact me as soon as they wake up.

I'll only engage people
(in the way I understood the question)
in a NON confrontational way.

As far as the attitude of the newcomer ...

Steve mentioned his awareness of judgement to certain newcomers-

Honey, we've ALL done it.

"No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles.".......

But every now and then
my Spiritual Condition
is such that
I actually have the thought ...

"where would *I* be if *I* had been judged when I came back to AA?"

Next thing *I* know
(after that thought)

My hand is out.

stone

I agree with this but I also wonder what about the people who die before they are ready? I know we cannot force them to stop drinking though.

An AA friend of mine recounts the time a young guys mum said to him, "when will he stop?", my friend said "when he has had enough", a few weeks later the guy died from a massive binge, organ failure or something.

Of course, me knowing AND being told the next time could kill me....never stopped me either.


And McGowdog is right, "there but for the grace of God go I", doesn't make a very good eulogy does it?

tomvlll

If I could just start treating everybody like I treat a newcomer to AA, then I'd be making some real progress

Boleo

Your bottom is not reached till you stop digging!