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Old 02-26-2008, 03:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Selfish or alcoholic?

There is a lot of talk on here about how alcoholics lie and manipulate so they can keep drinking but what about when they aren't drinking and it seems that their behavior is the same? Lying and creating fights. What is the motivation when they aren't drinking? Is it just a selfish mode that they are always in?
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Old 02-26-2008, 03:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think it's part of the disease. Not in every case of course. But even if someone isn't drinking it doesn't mean they're getting better or recovering.
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Old 02-26-2008, 04:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Sometimes a person is just a jerk underneath all the other issues or without any issues even.

Personally, I have learned its not worth the brain cells trying to figure out why a person is acting in a way I find unacceptable. Especially if they act that way after I let them know I find its unacceptable, they aren't someone I want to be involved with.
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Old 02-26-2008, 04:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I don't think she's a jerk. I really don't. I think she's in pain. But so am I and I can't do anything about hers. But as you know, it's very difficult to watch someone you love do this and think they aren't affecting you a damn bit.
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Old 02-26-2008, 04:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Oh and one more thing to note, she's in denial about her sexuality. That's an important detail I believe.
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Old 02-26-2008, 04:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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According to some reading I've done, an alcoholic's brain takes 1 year to return to previous levels of functioning once drinking ceases.

However, I don't know of a single recovering alcoholic who has improved their emotional intelligence without working a program.

The problem I had was that even if XABF had never had anything to drink in his life, I would have still found his behaviour acceptable, because my acceptable-O-meter was broken.
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Old 02-26-2008, 04:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Oh and one more thing to note, she's in denial about her sexuality. That's an important detail I believe.

That certainly can cause her all sorts of problems.
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Old 02-26-2008, 04:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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According to some reading I've done, an alcoholic's brain takes 1 year to return to previous levels of functioning once drinking ceases.

However, I don't know of a single recovering alcoholic who has improved their emotional intelligence without working a program.

The problem I had was that even if XABF had never had anything to drink in his life, I would have still found his behaviour acceptable, because my acceptable-O-meter was broken.
Awesome post Cagefree!

I agree with this especially the "emotional intelligence " bit.

Acceptable-O-Meter---------that was gold.
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Old 02-26-2008, 04:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC17 View Post
There is a lot of talk on here about how alcoholics lie and manipulate so they can keep drinking but what about when they aren't drinking and it seems that their behavior is the same? Lying and creating fights. What is the motivation when they aren't drinking? Is it just a selfish mode that they are always in?
A more productive and pertinent question for me was "Why do I want so badly to have a relationship with a selfish, lying, manipulating person?"

L
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I agree with LaTeeDa on this. Why would I want a relationship with an A; particularly one who is selfish and manipulative? Also, what does conflicted sexuality have to do with this? Okay, here goes ... trying to diagnose an alkie's sexuality, codependency, irrationality, selfishness, manipulative techniques, etc., leads to one thing - OUR OWN INSANITY.

Here's what I learned about myself. I married two A's. That told me that I had a ton of my own emotional issues. It also told me that I was avoiding myself by placing all my focus on, "Why did he do that?" or "What made him do this?"

Here's what I learned about the addicts: I never figured out a doggone thing they did because they were both looney from all the booze. I did manage to trash my own sanity (what little I had of it), my health, my finances, my well-being, self-esteem, and anything else remotely "normal" that I may have possessed.

All I can do is work on figuring out my own problems. And that in itself is enough to keep me busy the rest of my life ...
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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active addiction creates unacceptable behavior.

but other illnesses also create it, including major depressive disorder, borderline personality disorder, bipolar disorder.....a long list.

major depression lasts an average of one year and can create behavior that looks very much like addiction. many relationships are destroyed by untreated depression because the couple did not know that was what created the profound personality changes.

not all unacceptable behavior is the result of someone being a jerk. or an addict. and some unacceptable behavior goes away when the real illness is medically treated.

this is not to suggest clinical depression is the problem in this situation. i just feel i need to speak out for those who suffer personality changes --mood swings, anger, isolation, blaming, despair--and need, in fact, support and medical care and patience, not judgment, not rejection.

sometimes we don't know that another person is truly ill. it is good to keep an open mind as we seek out more information and try to get a better picture as we make our choices.

my son suffered major depression for 2 years. he did not cause it, and he suffered terribly. his personality changed.

today he is well. he is strong. he is himself. thank God.

just needed to share this.
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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NYC are you even sure that girlfriend is actually an alcoholic? From what you have posted it seems that she is certainly abusing alcohol at the moment, but please don't fall into the trap of thinking that you are able to diagnose her. That is not fair on you or her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
"Why do I want so badly to have a relationship with a selfish, lying, manipulating person?"
It doesn't really change anything by putting a label on the cause of HER bevavior. However identifying YOUR behavior and its drivers will reap reach rewards.
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:45 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The problem I had was that even if XABF had never had anything to drink in his life, I would have still found his behaviour acceptable, because my acceptable-O-meter was broken.



I LOVE this! My acceptable-O-meter has definately been altered....for the better!!

Thanks for that one cagefree!!

g
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
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omg!! Can't figure out the quote thing!! A good chuckle for anyone that needs one..lol!
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
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KarmaKoma, I am not sure if she is, but some signs point to it and I believe there is a definite connection. Having and alcoholic father. Admittedly wanting to go out and drink and not have to worry about me, turning glassy eyed and face changing, personality changing and past stories of passing out and not knowing exactly what happened to her. (Before us). I certainly cannot diagnos and in the heat of anger it very well could be something I'm looking for, but I don't think it's a far reach.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Hi,

It's part of the disease and doesn't change over night. the person has to see that they do that and want to work on it.

ngaire

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There is a lot of talk on here about how alcoholics lie and manipulate so they can keep drinking but what about when they aren't drinking and it seems that their behavior is the same? Lying and creating fights. What is the motivation when they aren't drinking? Is it just a selfish mode that they are always in?
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Hi there,
I agree with LTD on this one. Alcoholic or not is this what you want in any relationship. Codependancy is your problem not alcohol.

Take it easy

Mairxx
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hang on guys. The diagnosis of alcoholism here is seemingly not within any of the diagnostic criteria that would be used in any medical field I have known. Surely diagnosing someone based on third party speculation is a big no no?

Yes alcoholics lie and manipulate. But so do many other people, clinically diagnosable or not.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I agree, thank you. Sorry, I am not trying to diagnos anyone. Just trying to stay sane and open my eyes to possibilities that may fit.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Here is what I posted earlier on vrb's thread. It seems to fit here, as well.
Quote:
Not easy, but it is a lot more simple than it appears. When I start to analyze or excuse another persons behavior, for whatever reason, I am diverting my attention from the obvious. Is it acceptable, or not? When I start rationalizing, I am avoiding the truth. You can say he is a "fixer," a recovering alcoholic, a Catholic, an Irishman, suffers from ADHD, has blond hair, or whatever. It simply doesn't matter what causes the unacceptable behavior. All that matters is--it's unacceptable. I used my husband's alcoholism as an excuse for his behavior for a long time. Guess what? He sobered up and still behaved unacceptably! Imagine that!
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