Can you have an Alcoholic committed?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 240
Can you have an Alcoholic committed?
OK, this is way beyond serious now. I just brought my AH back to rehab (so I thought - I'll explain in a minute) on Wednesday. I thought he was checking into detox and then being transferred to residential treatment, that's what he thought, that's what his parents thought (who he's been living with for the past month). This morning we get a call that he's being d/c from detox and there is no bed available in residential inpatient yet. My Mother-in-Law called the facility and they confirmed the story. They gave him a bus pass and let him walk right out the door this morning. Six hours later, he shows up at my Mother-in-Law's house beyond drunk. What a surprise. And guess what? If a bed opens up tomorrow for residential treatment, he can't go in because he needs to detox again!
My Mother-in-Law lives about 2 hours away from me and his car is here, so at least he can't drive and he has no way of getting back here to bug me. His poor Mother. What a terrific Mother's Day present for her. She's so miserable and getting very frustrated. I truly, with my whole heart, believe this man needs to be committed. He is a danger to himself and others. Can this be done? Has anyone had a similar situation with someone so far gone?
His Mother will not put him out (yet anyway). So he has gone from manipulating me to doing the same to her. He has no job. How does he have any money you might ask? He went and got a high interest loan last week and has been using that to pay his bills and drink himself stupid. Guess he never considered how he's going to pay the monthly loan installments.
Many of you have read my story over the past few weeks. All I can compare him to is Nicholas Case in the movie Leaving Las Vegas. Is there anything that his family can do from a legal standpoint to have him committed?
Thanks
BTW, because he has no job, he has no insurance benefits. He is basically indigent. There are a limited number of treatment facilities that accept indigent patients on a sliding scale payment basis, and those facilites reserve a very limited number of beds to these types of patients. The waiting list can be weeks to months. He is very willing to go into rehab, there's just no place for him to go right now.
My Mother-in-Law lives about 2 hours away from me and his car is here, so at least he can't drive and he has no way of getting back here to bug me. His poor Mother. What a terrific Mother's Day present for her. She's so miserable and getting very frustrated. I truly, with my whole heart, believe this man needs to be committed. He is a danger to himself and others. Can this be done? Has anyone had a similar situation with someone so far gone?
His Mother will not put him out (yet anyway). So he has gone from manipulating me to doing the same to her. He has no job. How does he have any money you might ask? He went and got a high interest loan last week and has been using that to pay his bills and drink himself stupid. Guess he never considered how he's going to pay the monthly loan installments.
Many of you have read my story over the past few weeks. All I can compare him to is Nicholas Case in the movie Leaving Las Vegas. Is there anything that his family can do from a legal standpoint to have him committed?
Thanks
BTW, because he has no job, he has no insurance benefits. He is basically indigent. There are a limited number of treatment facilities that accept indigent patients on a sliding scale payment basis, and those facilites reserve a very limited number of beds to these types of patients. The waiting list can be weeks to months. He is very willing to go into rehab, there's just no place for him to go right now.
Fool To Do Your Dirty Work
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Greenflower Street
Posts: 362
W - my A has a job but no benefits and was very ready to go to rehab in Feb (when i first started coming to SR) however, can't get admitted without payment up front. very frustrating. i am interested to see the responses to your post. prayers to you and yours....
Let Go Let God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: jersey shore
Posts: 437
so sorry whataboutme..what a horrible situation .. I do rmbr one time when my ah was in rehab he told me the same thing , that he was being d/c as there was no place else for him to go and his vitals were good . I spoke to the detox center also and they confirmed it , turns out , I wasnt asking the right questions .
I talked to the detox center several times and within one of the conversations I learned that he was unwilling to sign himself in and that was the reason they couldnt take him . Once he knew that I knew the truth , he signed himself in .
I dont know what you can do about having him committed , maybe you can call your local emergency room and ask them how to go about that if its even possible .
My heart goes out to you and your MIL .. Lots of Luck
((()))s
I talked to the detox center several times and within one of the conversations I learned that he was unwilling to sign himself in and that was the reason they couldnt take him . Once he knew that I knew the truth , he signed himself in .
I dont know what you can do about having him committed , maybe you can call your local emergency room and ask them how to go about that if its even possible .
My heart goes out to you and your MIL .. Lots of Luck
((()))s
Let Go Let God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: jersey shore
Posts: 437
oh , as far as insurance goes , my husband has very good insurance and is also covered as a secondary under my insurance which is also very good ...
We still had problems getting him admitted .. It was a nightmare !!
I vowed one day I would try to fight for better rights for alcohol & drug rehab .
It sucks when they finally want to get better and all the doors close in their face.
We still had problems getting him admitted .. It was a nightmare !!
I vowed one day I would try to fight for better rights for alcohol & drug rehab .
It sucks when they finally want to get better and all the doors close in their face.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 240
The facilities in our area, or even in our state, that take patients w/o insurance on a sliding-scale payment basis do not require payment up front. They bill patients post-rehab, which would explain why they offer only a limited number of beds and there is an extensive waiting list. We paid almost $10,000 cash for his last stay in rehab (for 2 weeks) at the end of February. He stayed sober for less than 24 hours after being d/c. Despite how desperate the situation is, I'm not willing to come out of pocket (MY pocket, as he has no job) to pay for another rehab.
He is very willing to go the rehab and the detox counselor confirmed that he was ready and willing to complete the resedential program. They d/c him from detox today because his vitals were stable, which is the whole point of detox. Unfortunately, there just isn't a resedential bed available for him yet. And he's already drinking again. Now he needs to be detoxed again. It's a neverending, vicious, frustrating circle.
He is very willing to go the rehab and the detox counselor confirmed that he was ready and willing to complete the resedential program. They d/c him from detox today because his vitals were stable, which is the whole point of detox. Unfortunately, there just isn't a resedential bed available for him yet. And he's already drinking again. Now he needs to be detoxed again. It's a neverending, vicious, frustrating circle.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 240
I should add that even when he did have health insurance, that covered 30 calendar days of inpatient treatment per year, they still would not authorize treatment! They wanted him to try outpatient first, with documented proof (by their criteria) that he was not improving in terms of his daily drinking habits. And they did not qualify AA as treatment.
He sees a FP and a Psych. Both MDs are aware of his problems and agree that he needs i/p treatment. But even their recommendations have not helped him in terms of getting into a facility any faster.
I give up.
He sees a FP and a Psych. Both MDs are aware of his problems and agree that he needs i/p treatment. But even their recommendations have not helped him in terms of getting into a facility any faster.
I give up.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: iowa
Posts: 93
My stbxAH has been court ordered committed 3 times now. Based on the fact that he's a danger to himself or others.
The 1st time my 2 sis-in-laws filed the forms. Here in Iowa you need 2 people to have someone committed.
The 2nd time he was committed I had called 911 because he was mixing pain meds, muscle relaxants & alcohol - he went to the hospital, so the Dr. & I filed the committal papers.
The 3rd time I & my mom-in-law filed the papers. The same day I started the divorce precedings.
Each time they took him to a hospital for detox, the drs. there wrote their report as to what should happen. Each time he was committed then to an inpatient treatment- the court ordered it, so it was done.
It never cost us anything. They did a sliding scale but then we have never been billed for inpatient. And the hospitals put us on financial asssistance.
Again, in Iowa each county has a central point coordinator who deals with mental health issues. You might check at the court house where you would file committal papers and ask if there is someone (a social worker in my county) who works with mental health issues in your county. He/she is able to communicate with inpatient facilities and likely has a list of all the ones around - and able to find openings sometimes too.
I feel for you ... I well remember those days.
Today my stbxAH went to jail for 2 days. I hope he was sober - he has a history of withdrawal seizures- poor jailers if he wasn't. He knows this - his problem. At least I'll have 48 hours away from his phone calls.
(((((Hugs)))))
The 1st time my 2 sis-in-laws filed the forms. Here in Iowa you need 2 people to have someone committed.
The 2nd time he was committed I had called 911 because he was mixing pain meds, muscle relaxants & alcohol - he went to the hospital, so the Dr. & I filed the committal papers.
The 3rd time I & my mom-in-law filed the papers. The same day I started the divorce precedings.
Each time they took him to a hospital for detox, the drs. there wrote their report as to what should happen. Each time he was committed then to an inpatient treatment- the court ordered it, so it was done.
It never cost us anything. They did a sliding scale but then we have never been billed for inpatient. And the hospitals put us on financial asssistance.
Again, in Iowa each county has a central point coordinator who deals with mental health issues. You might check at the court house where you would file committal papers and ask if there is someone (a social worker in my county) who works with mental health issues in your county. He/she is able to communicate with inpatient facilities and likely has a list of all the ones around - and able to find openings sometimes too.
I feel for you ... I well remember those days.
Today my stbxAH went to jail for 2 days. I hope he was sober - he has a history of withdrawal seizures- poor jailers if he wasn't. He knows this - his problem. At least I'll have 48 hours away from his phone calls.
(((((Hugs)))))
Last edited by criss-cross; 05-13-2007 at 05:43 PM.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 240
criss-cross, you had to file the committal papers through the court for him to be ordered to an inpatient rehab? Here in FL you can Baker Act someone with 2 other signatures, but that only gets them off the street for 3-5 days. What kind of "proof" did you have to provide as reason to have him committed? My MIL is going to call the court in her county to find out what we can do. Our problem is that he wants to go to rehab, but there isn't a bed available for him and when he's drinking (which is every day at this point), he is a serious danger to himself (and others if he has access to a vehicle). An MD has prescribed Seroquel to him, which is a benzo (similar in effect to Ativan) and then he drinks while taking that. Not a pretty combination.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: iowa
Posts: 93
Oh yea, been there done that with mixing medications.
The proof we had to write was just how he was a danger to himself of others. I wrote the last time about how he was drunk just the week before and left in his pickup truck - knowing there was no insurance on it and under the assumption that he didn't have a license & of course the bit about being drunk. AH has a history of withdrawal seizures & at the time had just had his halo off for his broken neck from his accident while driving drunk- so drinking is obviously a danger to himself. And drunk driving is a danger to others obviously too.
The 2nd time - he had started a pizza in the oven and forgot about it. Luckily I came home and took the 'black frisbee' out of the oven. He was standing there with the oven door open stumbling not knowing what to do. And of course saying he wished he was dead.
The 1st time was more of a history. However he had recently gone down to his sisters and she witnessed his crazy and demanding behavior. As well as how he treated my children when he was on the phone with her. My other sis-in-law lives in town and we often did things together. Many a birthday parties, Christmas', and other holidays involved alcohol - so she knew alot about him.
After AH was committed to the hospital he sobered up in the 3-5 days he was there. The 1st 2 times he was willing to go to inpatient then too. The 3rd time he would not just go. We had to talk in front of a judge - and I had to be questioned & cross examined the works. Boy was that nerve racking. But then when he was committed to inpatient it was always for 30 days court ordered inpatient. (of course it ended up only being 21-22 days) He really needed longer term but that was the length of the ones he could get into.
I would think there would be an opening- it's just how far away they're willing to go. Our CPC (central point coordinator) had the locations of all centers in the state - it didn't matter how far. The jailer had to drive AH to the other corner of the state the last time AH was committed. I had to pick him up (well met him half way).
The proof we had to write was just how he was a danger to himself of others. I wrote the last time about how he was drunk just the week before and left in his pickup truck - knowing there was no insurance on it and under the assumption that he didn't have a license & of course the bit about being drunk. AH has a history of withdrawal seizures & at the time had just had his halo off for his broken neck from his accident while driving drunk- so drinking is obviously a danger to himself. And drunk driving is a danger to others obviously too.
The 2nd time - he had started a pizza in the oven and forgot about it. Luckily I came home and took the 'black frisbee' out of the oven. He was standing there with the oven door open stumbling not knowing what to do. And of course saying he wished he was dead.
The 1st time was more of a history. However he had recently gone down to his sisters and she witnessed his crazy and demanding behavior. As well as how he treated my children when he was on the phone with her. My other sis-in-law lives in town and we often did things together. Many a birthday parties, Christmas', and other holidays involved alcohol - so she knew alot about him.
After AH was committed to the hospital he sobered up in the 3-5 days he was there. The 1st 2 times he was willing to go to inpatient then too. The 3rd time he would not just go. We had to talk in front of a judge - and I had to be questioned & cross examined the works. Boy was that nerve racking. But then when he was committed to inpatient it was always for 30 days court ordered inpatient. (of course it ended up only being 21-22 days) He really needed longer term but that was the length of the ones he could get into.
I would think there would be an opening- it's just how far away they're willing to go. Our CPC (central point coordinator) had the locations of all centers in the state - it didn't matter how far. The jailer had to drive AH to the other corner of the state the last time AH was committed. I had to pick him up (well met him half way).
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
Having watched my cousin spend at least a year fighting with the court system in Delaware to get his schizophrenic brother committed, I can tell you this: you must have proof (besides him drinking himself to death) that he has injured himself or has injured others. The courts require hardcore proof. My schizo cuz heard voices that kept telling him people were trying to kill him. Thank God he didn't hear voices telling him he should try to kill others!
Okay, he heard voices, he went into major panic attacks, he shut down and become non-verbal. Still, we couldn't get him committed. Why? He wasn't cutting or maiming himself in anyway and he wasn't hurting anyone else. He didn't bathe, he hardly ate, and he was trapped inside his own sick mind.
Unless your AH does something self-destructive that can be verified in a court of law, you cannot have him committed to a mental hospital. If he continues to drink himself into convulsions or falls down and injures himself, you can get him admitted to a hospital, but you cannot force him into a rehab facility.
My AH's best friend had the bed lined up at a facility and even had an ambulance in front of our house to take AH to the facility. AH (drop-dead drunk during that situation) refused to go. There was nothing anyone could do to force him to go.
Okay, he heard voices, he went into major panic attacks, he shut down and become non-verbal. Still, we couldn't get him committed. Why? He wasn't cutting or maiming himself in anyway and he wasn't hurting anyone else. He didn't bathe, he hardly ate, and he was trapped inside his own sick mind.
Unless your AH does something self-destructive that can be verified in a court of law, you cannot have him committed to a mental hospital. If he continues to drink himself into convulsions or falls down and injures himself, you can get him admitted to a hospital, but you cannot force him into a rehab facility.
My AH's best friend had the bed lined up at a facility and even had an ambulance in front of our house to take AH to the facility. AH (drop-dead drunk during that situation) refused to go. There was nothing anyone could do to force him to go.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,351
with a court order-and a note from a psych/doctor--you can have him committed to a state hospital-for a long time-Rehab/detoxes you can walk out of--not a state hospital--it will also cover him(the government)once his insurance runs out-and even if he didn't have any.
is he a danger to himself?
is he a danger to anyone else?
does he threaten to harm himself or others?
Most judges will try and help you-they see it all the time/
is he a danger to himself?
is he a danger to anyone else?
does he threaten to harm himself or others?
Most judges will try and help you-they see it all the time/
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
Here is a link that may help
http://dasis3.samhsa.gov/
http://dasis3.samhsa.gov/PrxInput.aspx?STATE=Florida
You can also call SAMHSA's Toll-Free Referral Helpline
at 1-800-662-HELP (1-800-662-4357).
http://dasis3.samhsa.gov/
http://dasis3.samhsa.gov/PrxInput.aspx?STATE=Florida
You can also call SAMHSA's Toll-Free Referral Helpline
at 1-800-662-HELP (1-800-662-4357).
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
I am not an expert on this but does it vary from state to state? I know in FL the Marchman Act is available and pertinent to addicts especially if their loved ones initiate it.
If an intoxicated addict goes to a hospital they cannot leave the hospital unless they are lucid. They will be held against their will if they try to leave.
There are mechanisms for health care pros to involuntarily commit a person for a limited time during which they will be further evaluated by a psychiatrist and possibly held longer.
It can be a horrific thing for loved ones to go through. It can be bad for the addict also.
I wish one day there can be a highly effective treatment or cure.
If an intoxicated addict goes to a hospital they cannot leave the hospital unless they are lucid. They will be held against their will if they try to leave.
There are mechanisms for health care pros to involuntarily commit a person for a limited time during which they will be further evaluated by a psychiatrist and possibly held longer.
It can be a horrific thing for loved ones to go through. It can be bad for the addict also.
I wish one day there can be a highly effective treatment or cure.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: oh
Posts: 757
hey whataboutme
how heartbreaking and frustrating. he is finally ready to go. that is good! sorry you are having such a hard time finding someone to take him 
have you tried the salvation army? they have a really good program here. i don't think you ne
ed insurance or anything with them- just poverty, which it sounds like he has. praying he gets treatment.
have you tried the salvation army? they have a really good program here. i don't think you need insurance or anything with them- just poverty, which it sounds like he has. praying he gets treatment.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
Tonight I am learning a song called "Kite" it is about "letting go" could be about a friend, a lover, father, etc
VERSE:
E A E A
Something is about to give
E A E A
I can feel it coming I think I know what it is
E A E A
I'm not afraid to die I'm not afraid to live
E A E A
And when I'm flat on my back I hope to feel like I did
(enter 2 slide guitar tracks):
-------------------------
--4/5--4/5--4/5\4\2------
--4/6--4/6--4/6\4\2------
-------------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------
(repeat)
A
And hardness It sets in
C#m A
You need some protection the thinner the skin
E A C#m A
I want you to know that you don't need me anymore
E A C#m
I want you to know You don't need anyone
A
Or anything at all
CHORUS:
E
Who's to say where the wind will take you
B
Who's to say what it is will break you
A
I don't know which way the wind will blow
E
Who's to know when the time has come around
B A
Don't want to see you cry
E
I know that this is not goodbye
Lead guitar chords on above chorus:
E B A
------0---7--------------
--9---7---5---------(0)--
--9---8---6-(8)-(6)------
--9---9---7--------------
--7-------0--------------
--0----------------------
(play with variations of these)
slide solo in second verse:
e-7/9--9---12\11--11\7--7\5--5-
b------------------------------
e-7/9--9---12\11--11\7--7\4--4-
b------------------------------
e-2/4--4\2--0--0--
b-----------------
CHORDS USED:
E (022100)
A (x02220)
C#m (x46654)
B (x2444x)
VERSE:
E A E A
Something is about to give
E A E A
I can feel it coming I think I know what it is
E A E A
I'm not afraid to die I'm not afraid to live
E A E A
And when I'm flat on my back I hope to feel like I did
(enter 2 slide guitar tracks):
-------------------------
--4/5--4/5--4/5\4\2------
--4/6--4/6--4/6\4\2------
-------------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------
(repeat)
A
And hardness It sets in
C#m A
You need some protection the thinner the skin
E A C#m A
I want you to know that you don't need me anymore
E A C#m
I want you to know You don't need anyone
A
Or anything at all
CHORUS:
E
Who's to say where the wind will take you
B
Who's to say what it is will break you
A
I don't know which way the wind will blow
E
Who's to know when the time has come around
B A
Don't want to see you cry
E
I know that this is not goodbye
Lead guitar chords on above chorus:
E B A
------0---7--------------
--9---7---5---------(0)--
--9---8---6-(8)-(6)------
--9---9---7--------------
--7-------0--------------
--0----------------------
(play with variations of these)
slide solo in second verse:
e-7/9--9---12\11--11\7--7\5--5-
b------------------------------
e-7/9--9---12\11--11\7--7\4--4-
b------------------------------
e-2/4--4\2--0--0--
b-----------------
CHORDS USED:
E (022100)
A (x02220)
C#m (x46654)
B (x2444x)
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 115
I've been going through something similar...also in Florida. My AH went to rehab Apr. 27 for one week, picked up beer at the closest store on the way home and has been drinking steadily ever since. However, additionally, now he's a hypicritical prophet preaching his AA message and all the revelations he's had to everyone. Last Monday, he said he needed to go back to rehab for 28 more days and left for the place which is 2 hours away. He lied for days and said they had no space available and he was just going to stay with friends and go to hotels until space opened up. I called the facility and he never even called them. They said he had always been "pre-appoved" to go back there at any time. He then told me alchohol really isn't his problem, it's just his mind and what he really needs to do is to "find himself" and visit his family in Ohio. So that's where he is now $3000 and one week later. I tried to have him Baker-acted Saturday per what his psych suggested, but unless there is a specific threat of suicide or harm to someone else, the Sherriff's dept. wouldn't do it. Drinking oneself to death or driving a 1 1/2 ton weapon ins't enough to stop him. Marchman Act doesn't work fast enough either. You just have no options other than a judge with 2 witnesses etc....trust me. Even after AH severely broke his leg 6 weeks ago after drinking and driving, the hospital released him from there the same as if he never drank at all, and they wouldn't force him into treatment then either, even with my suggestion or the Psych's.
As much as I want time to think this out and/or help him get the help he needs, I'm running out of time. I can forsee him ruining my life too if I stay. We own a business together, own our home etc. But if he hurts someone else or himself again, financially I lose everything! (we're running out of health ins. next month). I wish detaching was enough, but I'm probably forced into divorce soon. It sucks that you can't help...doesn't it?
As much as I want time to think this out and/or help him get the help he needs, I'm running out of time. I can forsee him ruining my life too if I stay. We own a business together, own our home etc. But if he hurts someone else or himself again, financially I lose everything! (we're running out of health ins. next month). I wish detaching was enough, but I'm probably forced into divorce soon. It sucks that you can't help...doesn't it?
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