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Old 09-16-2009, 04:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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So why no crosstalk?

I go to some meetings where they say, "No crosstalking allowed". My understanding of crosstalk is when someone comes and says something like, "I have a problem in my life and this is what it is... Can you give me some feedback?" And the next 34 people share at that person.

Or I guess it can be when someone shares and other people comment on that other person's share.

Am I on track? Is this what crosstalk is?

If so, why not do it? Why bad? And... more importantly, how does a meeting structure itself to avoid it altogether?

My group, for one, would never lay itself out to crosstalk. A chairperson comes with a topic, reads out of the book and shares their ESH or just experience in the topic, we meditate, then the chairperson calls on people to share. You share from your own experience. You don't give feedback or advice to others because... it just don't work that way. Now during crossfire, one member asks another member a question about the topic.

So this group I went to at noon today, the chair person opens the meeting, and when done, says, "Does anyone have a topic?" So this lady and her son share about how their 16 year old son is drinking himself to death and dropping out of high school and dating some girl who he shouldn't and she takes him to school and to work and isn't sure if he isn't sneaking off and what can she do. She's in tears. He's in tears.

It was... interesting to say the least. And yes, there was crosstalk at this meeting. Most of what people said is... "We can't advise you", "Alanon", "Hit a bottom", etc.

To me, the simple solution would seem to be have the chairperson come to the meeting WITH a topic.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-16-2009, 04:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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When they refer to cross talk in the regular midday meeting I go to, it seems to address back and forth conversation between 2 or more members when one of those members is sharing. Not after the sharing is over, but in the middle of it, and usually without introducing themselves. Almost like they start having coffee talk among themselves.

Hope I made sense there. Not been my strong suit lately
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Old 09-16-2009, 05:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm lmao Mcgow, because I just realized our group says it before every meeting and I bet no 3 people would even agree what it is .

But we don't do it!
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Old 09-16-2009, 05:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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AA FAQ

Cross-talk in meetings.
Question: Does AA have an official description of what exactly constitutes cross-talk? Is it prohibited in AA?

Answer: No. There is no rule in A.A. against "cross talk" though it avoided as a matter of strong custom in many areas.

Typically "cross talk" refers to people speaking out of turn, interrupting someone while they are speaking or giving direct advice to someone in a meeting. There is a custom in many areas to speak only from one's own experience and to avoid giving direct advice or lecturing a group or individual.
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Old 09-16-2009, 05:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Cross talk to me is people talking back and forth, either privately, or back and forth from the podium with a member.

Baically, cross talk to me means a conversation.
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Old 09-16-2009, 05:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Well Patrick,
In those TLUC meetings ( You thought I didn't notice that one huh?) they have rules that aren't always conducive to the flow of the spirit in the room. I know when I first came into AA, newcomers at some meetings were encouraged to ask questions, and others would share their experience in that area. And yes, sometimes there was a conversation going back and forth ( how dare they engage in such behavior! Showing concern for the new guy like that by talking with them during the meeting!!!)

Now on the other hand I do agree 100% with:

Quote:
To me, the simple solution would seem to be have the chairperson come to the meeting WITH a topic.
That is the difference between taking a service position and being of service. The person being of service might actually show up at the meeting prepared, unless the group wants it to be a free flow type of meeting, I have been to some great ones, and I have been to horrible meetings that were structured quite well.

If format were the key to a good meeting we would all have meetings like yours Patrick. I am sure your meeting runs well more because of the spirit of the room and the informed group conscience. That is the key
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomvlll View Post

There is a custom in many areas to speak only from one's own experience and to avoid giving direct advice or lecturing a group or individual.
That's how I take it. I saw an AA ream out another who, during his share, was looking at someone and talking directly at him. I was stunned because it seemed so innocent, i.e., he wasn't so much lecturing but advising... But I thought about it later and I realized that how I saw it may have been different than how the other saw it...

Or maybe, the two just didn't like each other much... which, they don't.

I take the announcement of no crosstalk at the start the way tommyk does... like, don't be rude when some one else is talking... not much of a problem at my meetings, thankfully... I hate that.

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Old 09-16-2009, 06:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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In my HG we say: "The group conscience requests that all present refrain from domination, advice-giving, double-dipping and crosstalk -- which we define as directly addressing, commenting on, or responding to another member's sharing." (We also do offer a First Step meeting weekly, so that newcomers have a place to go where they can ask questions, etc....)

There's a women's AA meeting I attend at which they say: "Please keep your sharing brief, as there may be others who want or need to share, and please avoid advice-giving, double-dipping and crosstalk, so that everyone feels free and safe to share."

I've heard it said many times, when this topic comes up at meetings or in group consciences around here, that it has to do with helping people feel comfortable and safe -- so that people know that they are not going to be questioned, disagreed with directly, told what to do, or silenced/discouraged in any other way. And a lot of people I know who have lived with or around alcoholism a lot of their lives do seem to have had the experience of it not being acceptable or sometimes even safe -- emotionally and/or physically -- for them to talk honestly about what was really going on and how they were feeling about it.

Now, obviously, not feeling safe or comfortable saying what's on my mind is not a problem I've ever had myself (......and I'm just so sure that you're all totally shocked to hear that!), so I can't personally vouch for how valid this reasoning is -- and, in fact, in the beginning I thought is was pretty silly -- but, at this point I've heard it said by so many people, so many times that I've got to believe it's very true and quite important for a lot of them!

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Old 09-16-2009, 07:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks everybody! I'm agreeable this evening. I agree with each and every post thus far. If I didn't "thank" anyone yet, the omission was not intentional.

I hear ya though Steve. My Monday HG is what it is. I go to other meetings. Like the meeting today. It's become very structured from what it was.. in that the CP calls on people to share. But they announce in the beginning something to the effect, "If you have a burning desire to get something off your chest, you may propose a topic." But some people just say, "Does anyone have a topic?" Well... 90% of the time, there's silence. Then some chair people step up and say, "I've got a topic." Then I don't have to say under my breath, "Chair the Effing meeting!"

Well, this lady took over the meeting and it looked like it might be a free-for-all circus. But... I thought it turned out to be a pretty good meeting... despite the crosstalk (advice given or not given).

We learned a lot about the word "powerless" as it relates to another person's drinking. It seems to me that the very word "powerless" in cyber world has lost its savvy. But... go find an alky who don't want to quit and try to get them sober. How does that work? If that doesn't describe powerlessness, what does? And this lady used the word "choice" and "bad choices" over and over again. Some people tuned into that a bit and gave some ESH.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Our group does different things on different days. We read big book stories tuesday. Study language of the heart on thursday We have someone different every day of the week running the meeting, and it's up to them as far is topic. Nobody is EVER called on, we all take turns as we feel like. Sometimes we take turns rotating around the table, sometimes we don't.
But at the start there is always the question(Does anyone have a sobriety threatening topic they wish to discuss?) That always has priority.

There is no limit to how long someone speaks. (yea there is always someone that won't quit) But I like the lax way we do things. We seem to get along very well( except when someone forgets the anonymous part).
So I guess I don't know what cross talk is. I think I might be better off not knowing
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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There's not a strong NA in my area so many addicts go to AA. I know I know all about how that is and isn't great sigh.
The problem is many alcoholics are also drug addicts. So the other evening at a meeting many alcoholics were sharing on cravings and whatnot that were introduced from a various and sundry source: dr prescribed meds for ADD, Red Bull energy drinks, and etc types of shares for example.

Well a hardcore old timer had enough and was outraged. Maybe rightly so. Maybe not. He said this was an AA meeting. But the shares were about how the meds made the alcoholics want to drink or relapse.

It wasn't just drug addicts that were lost and needed a meeting and hey here's AA so let's go in today, it was alcoholics that were having issues too.

So the rest of the meeting was what maybe considered cross talk. It was people directing anger at the old timer telling him everyone was welcome, telling him the primary purpose was a desire to stop drinking.

I dunno but it seemed like one he was angry and made a statement, that made all the previous shares about drugs and etoh cravings seem like a bad thing and possibly made those folks feel unwelcome. I think maybe he cross talked to them. Not sure on this. But the rest of the shares were cross talk to him about why the shares were valid. The end result we got zero ESH, we lost about 15 members including oldtimer that got up and walked out. So in this instance it seemed a complete bomb of a meeting and made me want to run for an NA meeting.

I think in the case of a newcomer that helping him on that first meeting is more important than rule observation and IF he comes back gently let him know what is and isn't considered cross talk. But I still am not really sure what the heck cross talk is either. I thought it might be chitchat. But then when someone comes in crying about a specific problem and wants help how to help without addressing that person???? I get so confused about how to really help someone because it seems the rules are so prohibitive.
I think shaming someone by telling addressing them and making them feel foolish or bad is what I would consider crosstalk .

I do best in casual group sharing like group therapy but that is GROUP RX not AA. I try to listen and share my ESH and not give advice but many people do give advice in the meetings.

edited to to read better
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i thought 'cross talk' referred to people speaking about the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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That was clever, Wolf.

So... Redbull? I don't drink that stuff because... I've heard stuff. I know a guy who has to blow into a tube to get his vehicle to start. He said he had drank an energy drink and it made his blower-into-vehicle-startie-machine not work and give a false high or whatever. He had to go into the DMV and explain that. Evidently, it was temporary as he was able to start it up after a couple of minutes, but it was recorded.

That story alone would keep me from drinking that stuff.

Let's just say that crosstalk as it applies to giving advice or sharing about or to another member; can this ever be helpful in an A.A. meeting? Does it annoy other members and/or kill the spirit of recovery? Or does it just depend on what the group conscience is and the situation?
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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To elaborate further, I bolded what I thought was pertinent for me

Question: Does AA have an official description of what exactly constitutes cross-talk? Is it prohibited in AA?

Quote:
Answer: No. There is no rule in A.A. against "cross talk" though it avoided as a matter of strong custom in many areas.

Typically "cross talk" refers to people speaking out of turn, interrupting someone while they are speaking or giving direct advice to someone in a meeting. There is a custom in many areas to speak only from one's own experience and to avoid giving direct advice or lecturing a group or individual.

How it is accepted and dealt with varies from group to group and region to region. In some groups members frequently interrupt one another for joking comments, in other places you might be asked to be quiet or leave for doing the same. In many places outside The USA the idea of "cross talk" being detrimental doesn't exist.

The ultimate arbiter of the subject is the individual group which is free to follow its own customs. What is considered quite proper in one meeting may cause quite a stir in another, but there is no rulebook for it.

The Big Book describes the earliest meetings as "informal" get togethers. The idea of "cross talk" being discouraged is not evident in the book but something that started later.

The Big Book does however give some good advice on not giving advice and explains why people should consider sticking to their own experience and not lecture others. From Page 125:

We find it better, when possible, to stick to our own stories. A man may criticize or laugh at himself and it will affect others favorably, but criticism or ridicule coming from another often produces the contrary effect. Members of a family should watch such matters carefully, for one careless, inconsiderate remark has been known to raise the very devil. We alcoholics are sensitive people. It takes some of us a long time to outgrow that serious handicap.


Prohibition of "cross talk" is a common practice in clinical group therapy and this has perhaps become an influence on A.A. Many people first encounter this custom in a rehab setting and often have no reason to consider that it might be different in A.A. which is not intended to be form of group therapy.
AA is not group therapy, in AA we share our "Experience, Strength, and Hope" and in those three words there isn't room for "you should" or "If I were you I would" or "in my opinion"

Good judgment comes from experience, most of that comes from bad judgment

So in a topic we can share how we navigated X Y or Z in sobriety and how it applied to the steps etc and what our experience is with this particular step (like Dawg describes in his home group) but to me Crosstalk has always bordered on "giving advice or opinion" and I have a particular antipathy for people who give advice and tell you what YOU should do rather then speak from their own experience because in 99/100 that person is unable to apply those concepts in their own life, however, when someone says, I tried this, and got this result (the room roars with laughter since they have all tried forms of that particular stupidity themselves) but when I did this I got THIS result.

it's all about the ESH baaayyybeeeee ESH, crosstalk eliminates Experience, Strength and Hope upon which the success of communicating the program rests on.

course that's just my opinion
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:20 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I LOVE that we do no crosstalk! The minute we do crosstalk we are allowing our ego's to run rampant - and we all know the recuperative powers of the ego!!!!! This programme is about ego deflation (so that we can be of maximum service to God and helpfulness to others) When I cross talk I am setting myself up as the expert/better than and giving advice.

When I just share what I know (my own ESH) that's helpful and healthy and cool cause it keeps the ego in check.

Meetings with cross talk turn me off COMPLETELY! Where I go people are very good at observing this VITAL principle.

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Old 09-17-2009, 03:40 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The problem is many alcoholics are also drug addicts. So the other evening at a meeting many alcoholics were sharing on cravings and whatnot that were introduced from a various and sundry source: dr prescribed meds for ADD, Red Bull energy drinks, and etc types of shares for example.
An alcoholic who is working a program of recovery knows what to do about being tempted, and if they worked the 12 steps as outlined in the Big Book they will find that at some point that will be automatic, that isn't propoganda, Ego feeding rhetoric, that is the truth.

Sitting in a meeting sharing that I am craving ( Oh, I am a recovered addict as well) does what?????

It never solved a problem for me, that is just my experience. Never has that done anything for me.

Quote:
I dunno but it seemed like one he was angry and made a statement, that made all the previous shares about drugs and etoh cravings seem like a bad thing and possibly made those folks feel unwelcome. I think maybe he cross talked to them.
That very well may be the case. Oldtimers can be spiritually sick too.
Quote:
I get so confused about how to really help someone because it seems the rules are so prohibitive.
I am not a big fan of meetings with rules either and I wasn't there at your group that day. If the person who shared about craving was new, then the meeting should have flowed to how the steps can remove that(my opinion), if the person had some time and was using the rooms to "vent" then I would have done what the old timer did and told them to lock it up.

Quote:
The minute we do crosstalk we are allowing our ego's to run rampant
Disagree 100000000000000%!

In the right place and time, cross talk is absolutely the most loving thing that can be done, some stuff can't wait until the meeting is over and the biggest ego deflating thing we can do is set aside the meeting Etiquette and address the issue at hand.
Quote:
Let's just say that crosstalk as it applies to giving advice or sharing about or to another member; can this ever be helpful in an A.A. meeting? Does it annoy other members and/or kill the spirit of recovery? Or does it just depend on what the group conscience is and the situation?
Those are good group inventory questions Patrick
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The meetings i seem to get the most out of the chair has a topic but first asks if anyone has a topic they need to hear about.

I particularly like the meetings we use to have about every two weeks that buged alot of people..the "tell us about your day" meeting lol...cause when it was well done it was people sharing about how TODAY they used the steps and AA to work through life and stay sober.

The main thing for me is that the pramble I think says we share our experience stregth and hope with each other.... I try not to share my experience AT someone ether.

I was one who's expereince was that talking from my heart about where i was at and what i was struggling with was very very unsafe..that i would be ridiculed, critizized and stuff likethat...the AA format I found when i first camethrough the doors was the mirical i needed....I could share briefly and not have to "protect" myself and others would share briefly but not "aim" it at me..just thier experences.

The meeting after the meeting is where some other sort of help could be offered.
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:26 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Ummm....I don't know what
Quote:
TLUC meetings
are.

If I were in a meeting I would be crosstalking
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:44 AM   #19 (permalink)
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At our meeting, we leave the last fifteen minutes of the meeting for Q & A and considerations.

Our meeting is a closed meeting and our format clearly states that. In fact, we are so bold as to state that if you identify as other than alcoholic, you cannot attend this meeting.

We just adapted this format a few weeks ago. The first time we used it, a woman came in too late to hear the opening statement but in time to hear the chairperson read the topic.. Another part of our format is that the chairperson reads a a short passage from the book and calls on people. The formats asks you to share your current experience with what has been read or to share from where you are at in your recovery.

When the chairperson called on this woman, I could tell that she was in the wrong place by listening to her share. So when the questions & considerations part opened up I asked her if could pose her a few considerations. She said sure. I asked to consider the fact that she might not be in the right place. She asked me what I meant. I said that I gathered from what she had said that she wasn't alcoholic and this led to me asking her what she uses when she relapses. After she told me that a drug is a drug and me gently explaining to her that that isn't necessarily true, she said cocaine was "her drug of choice." I asked her could it be that cocaine is her drug of no choice and once again she asked me what I meant. I asked her to consider the fact that if she had a choice would she keep doing it, despite the fact that it had ruined her life.

In the end, we ended up giving her a C.A. schedule. She told us that she was grateful that we had taken the time to stack things up for her and that we may have even saved her life.

But remember this: If you come in our meeting and identify as an addict, you will be asked to leave. We will direct you to the nearest open meeting and give you a schedule for the fellowship that fits your problem.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:31 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The next time I hear a chair say "does anyone have a topic?" and I feel bothered ~ I think I will raise my hand and say "Where do resentments come from?"



I have always associated "cross talk" with people speaking out of turn (interrupting someone else), or folks enjoying a small side conversation which should be taken outside. I mainly heard the "no crosstalk" at the various rehabs I have been a resident of...but that was always specific to people holding side conversations.
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